Joan de Nash

Contents

Personal and Family Information

Joan was born about 1287, the daughter of unknown parents. The place is not known.

Her husband was Andrew Hawkins, who she married in ABT 1308. The place has not been found. Their three known children were John (c1308-c1374), Margery (c1317-?) and Richard (c1320-1419).

Events

EventDateDetailsSourceMultimediaNotes
BirthABT 1287

Notes

Note 1

!Note: I believe Joan was really the name of Andrew’s wife, as the visitation of Kent listed her as that. It is also very likely, given the actions of William and John, that Andrew and Joan, made Nash court as their home. She was recorded with this name hundreds of years ago, and family records were burned along the way, so I can go with that there were likely other records which showed her name which were lost. To make this clear, John and William got Nash as part of handling Hawkinge. Joan was of Nash because she was the wife of Andrew who owned Nash. There is no reason to disbelieve the visitation chart.

!Note: Certain things are obvious about the origin of the Hawkins family.

1. The visitation of Kent is one of the earliest actual charts of the family’s hertage, verified by the hearalds in 1619.

To discount this record is foolish.

2. The early family was definitely connected to the Nash estate and owned it by heridity without a separate court deed.

3. Nash was originally part of the Hawkinge manner in Folkestone Hundred, and both were held under Dover Castle.

4. The name Hawkins, most assuredly came as a place name from Hawkinge and was probably altered slitghtly to the more familiar “kins”

ending meaning family. It may also have been affected by close relatives’ name of Hotchkiss.

5. Hawkinge was donated to the church by John and his son William de Flegh in 1294–1295, but Nash was not.

6. By 1271, John, father of William, was already paying a knight’s fee for Boughton, which included Nash Court, in right of Agnes and

Eleanor, younger daughters and heirs of Maud de Averenches, Barony of Folkestone, overlords of Hawkinge by knight service and ward to Dover Castle.

7. William was living at the right time to be the father of Andrew and simply by the possession of Nash, had to be his father.

8. References to "flag" at Dover Castle where likely referring to the banner representing the commander or constable of the castle.

This would very likely have been a banner bearing his personal coat of arms. During the time of Roger de Northwood's command, this would

have been the arms of Northwood. John and William being Northwoods, this banner would have referred to their name as well.

9. It appears that John and William were 2nd cousins of Stephen and Roger. It also appears that John was son of Nicholas de Northwood and

grandson of Ysolda de Baskerville de Northwood.

!Note: How the Early Hawkins Inheritance Likely Worked

John and his son William held land from Hawkeswood, Shropshire to Hawkinge, Kent and in between.

They gained more land through service at Dover Castle.

Dover Castle assigned them Hawkinge, apparently so they could prepare it for the church.

Nash was part of Hawkinge but stayed with the family.

Their land included properties in Warwickshire and Hereford and Wiltshire and Kent and apparently Huntingdonshire.

A. Children of John. In 1303 John and William went to Shropshire to clear up their interest in Hawkeswood and other land in and near Shropshire.

1. William was John's main heir aside from the following.

2. John and William sold their portion of Hawkeswood and other Shropshire land to Hugh le Mon who was also John's son and the father of the Hotchkiss line.

3. Warren who was also John's son, and father of the Hill line, was likely setup with his feoffment of nearby Neenton. The later lifetime lease in 1328 only confirmed this arrangement.

4. Simon, John's younger son, received land in Huntingdonshire.

B. Children of William

1. Also on that 1303 trip, John, Williams 2nd son, born about 1272, was apparently put in charge of land in Warwickshire and nearby counties.

2. Thomas was sent into royal service while still young.

3. Sir Andrew, as the first born, would be the main heir.

4. Stephen stayed with Andrew and later received York land himself. He likely received other lands which he passed to his own sons.

C. Children of Andrew from his first wife. Andrew's first wife likely brought York land into the family.

1. Nicholas received the main York land.

2. Henry received land in Nottinghamshire and in Norfolk.

3. Andrew II also received York land.

4. Roger came of age after Joan married Andrew. Andrew held Devon land through Joan and shared part of it with Roger.

5. Alexander received small pieces of land in Kent.

D. Children of John from his second wife Joan, who most likely brought lans from Devon and Cornwall with her dowry. <<<<

The Nash Estate became the family home after Hawkinge Manor was given to the church.

After Andrew died in 1321 Joan held Nash for her life, and was thus called Joan of Nash.

She apparently had the ability to distribute portions of the remaining property to her children as they came of age.

1. When Joan died Nash and the remaining lands, mostly in Kent and nearby counties, passed to her first son John I of Nash.

2. Margery was given a small York estate at age 2 1/2. Stephen was her guardian and added more land to her share when he died.

4. When Joan died the rest of the Devon land went to Sir Richard, alias Hankeford. He likely also received more in knight's service.

!NOTE: THE FOLLOWING BOOK, PUBLISHED 1798 SPEAKS OF ANDREW HAWKINS OF YORKSHIRE INHERITING NASH [IN KENT] BY HIS WIFE JOAN DE NASH. I WILL TAKE THIS AS A RELIABLE SOURCE AND NOT PART OF AN INTERNET HOAX.

!Source: Edward Hasted, The history and topographical survey of the county of Kent, second edition, volume 7, Canterbury 1798

https://www.durobrivis.net/hasted/octavo/1798-hasted-o-07.pdf

NASH is a mansion of account here, for having been

the seat of the family of Hawkins, as is apparent, as

well from records as from their own private evidences,

for some centuries past, and where they still reside in

their original gentility. >>> The first of them that I find

mention of, is Andrew Hawkins, who had a good

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estate in the liberty of Holderness, in Yorkshire, as ap=

pears by an inquisition taken anno 17 Edward III. and

left by his wife Joane de Nash, by whom he inherited

this seat of Nash, two sons, Richard and John, the

latter of whom purchased lands in Boughton in the be=

ginning of the reign of king Richard II <<<. His son John

Hawkins, esq. was of Nash, which continued in his

descendants down to Thomas Hawkins, esq. of Nash,

who dying in 1588, æt. 101, was buried with his wife

in the north chancel of this church, under a tomb of

Bethersden marble, on which is his figure in brass, and

an inscription, which says he served king Henry VIII.

which won him fame, who was a gracious prince to

him, and made well to spend his aged days; that he was

high of stature, his body long and strong, excelling all

that lived in his age. His only son Sir Thomas Haw=

kins, likewise resided at Nash, whose eldest son Sir

Thomas Hawkins, of Nash, was a person of fine ac=

complishments and learning, and among other works

translated Causinus’s Holy Court, and died in 1640./e

In whose descendants resident at Nash, who lie all of

them buried in the north chancel of this church, this

seat at length continued down to Thomas Hawkins,

esq. of Nash, who rebuilt this seat, of which he died

possessed in 1766, æt. 92. In whose time, anno 1715,

during the ferment the nation was thrown into on ac=

count of the rebellion in Scotland, this family being of

the Roman Catholic persuasion, the seat of Nash was

plundered by some of the neighburhood. Every part

of the furniture, family pictures, writings of the estate

and family, &c. were burnt by them, with an excellent

library of books; and the family plate was carried off,

and never heard of afterwards. Of his sons, John the

eldest became his heir, and Edward-Thomas possessed

the Gower estate, at Colmans, in Worcestershire, and

took the name of Gower. John Hawkins, esq. the eldest

/e See Wood’s Ath. Ox. vol. ii. col. 261.

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son, on his father’s death, became possessed of Nash, and

married Susan, daughter of Robert Constantine, esq.

of Dorsetshire, by whom he had two sons, to the eldest

of whom, Thomas, he in his life-time gave up this seat,

together with his other estates in this county. Thomas

Hawkins, esq. married Mary, the daughter of John

Bradshaw, esq. of London, descended from those of

Stretton, in Cheshire, by whom he has four daughters.

He resides at Nash, to which, with the grounds belong=

ing to it, he has made great additions and improve=

ments. The house is a large handsome building, plea=

santly situated on the summit of the hill, having a fine

prospect over the adjoining country, and has been fitted

up within these few years with much taste in the modern

stile. He bears for his arms, first and fourth, Haw=

kins, argent, on a saltire, sable, five fleurs de lis, or; se=

cond and third, Hames, azure, a chevron between three

demi lions, rampant, or./f

…,

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…,

BOUGHTON is within the ECCLESIASTICAL JURIS=

DICTION of the diocese of Canterbury, and deanry of

Ospringe.

The church, which is dedicated to St. Peter and St.

Paul, consists of a body and two isles, a high chancel

belonging to the parsonage, and two side chancels or

chapels. The north one, formerly St. James’s chapel,

belongs to the seat of Nash, and is filled with the mo=

numents of the Hawkins family; ….

!Source: Greenwood 1838–9 C. Greenwood, An epitome of county

history – vol. I – county of Kent . page 247.

https://www.durobrivis.net/library/1838-greenwood.pdf

Nash Court, in the Parish of Boughton-under-Blean, is a good house, and

situated in a small pleasant park, but having been uninhabited for many years, it

is in a very dilapidated state.

Nash, or Nash Court, for many centuries past, was the residence and property of the catholic family

of Hawkins. The first of this name, connected with this seat, was Andrew Hawkins, of Holderness, in

Yorkshire, who inherited Nash in right of his wife, Joane de Nash, in the reign of Edward III. from

whose descendants it has never been alienated. The present mansion was built by Thomas Hawkins,

Esq. who died in 1766, aged 92. In the year 1715, during the agitation arising from the rebellion in

Scotland, Nash Court was plundered by the populace, and the furniture, pictures, a good library, and

the deeds of the estate, were burnt, and the family plate carried off.

!Source: Andrew Haukyn https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hawkins-226

This and other sources have discredited work on Andrew Hawkins and especially on joan de Nash. I gave a resonse to this entry as below:

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Unfortunately this is less than convincing. First, if there was indeed some conspiracy, it happened by at least the time of the 1619 Visitation of Kent and not on the internet. Inquisitions, such as you mentioned are done for a particular property. In this case saying that, "Margery his daughter, aged 2 1/2, is his next heir", does not necessarily imply that he has no other children, but rather that none others are eligible here, and that her dowry needs to be set. This could easily just mean that any others, such as the two sons mentioned in the visitation, had already received their inheritance, perhaps while Andrew was alive, and were thus not eligible here. I will agree that genealogists sometimes mess with dates too much. However, records from this time period rarely give birth or date information, but usually someplace in between. Thus, it is necessary to make educated approximations. Yes, some very dumb people have tried to move people hundreds of years in order to claim relationships. He was not fathered by Osbert and his daughter didn't marry William Amadas. However, that Margaret may well have been his great-grand daughter and so far I have found exactly one Hawkins as a possibility for her father. I have no idea if Joan de Nash is real, but she was mentioned at least as early as 1798 . Your note, however, has totally sabotaged the genealogy of this family, to where nobody knows whether to discredit any of the work that has been done for hundreds of years. For my part a visitation is supposed to be a validated document from that time period, although occasional mistakes get through. I will take it as an original source, unless the College of Arms specifically says that it is wrong or you can actually show some proof. Also, the internet is a wonderful tool for genealogists, making sources, including translations and extracts and even images from this time period available at a touch of the keyboard. It is possible to do things which would have taken years of work, and weeks of travel to accomplish before the internet, if they could have been done at all.

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posted Apr 13, 2025 by You

edited Apr 13, 2025 by You